15 responses

1. 

   Dalton Jones

   Oct 18, 2012

   April, great summary of the film. And yes the pastor was holding that book! I was excited to see it getting a free plug : )

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2. 

   maria matty

   Oct 18, 2012

   I had the same question as you did when I saw it advertised as opening in Langley and Vancouver….who would its audience be. I was surprised that Cineplex offered it but am not surprised that only ten people attended. I thought I’d wait for renting it , or like you say dvd. maria

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3. 

   Michael Hardin

   Oct 22, 2012

   April: I’m not sure what you mean by “Where were the scholars?” Are you saying that one must teach at a university to be a scholar? Brad Jersak has a PhD, I am working on one, Greg Boyd has two PhD’s, we have all published a score of books between the three of us. Jamie-Clark Soles and Sharon Baker both have PhD’s and teach at accredited institutions and have published. What makes a scholar? That line felt a bit unfair although I appreciated the rest of your review.

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4. 

   April Yamasaki

   Oct 22, 2012

   Michael, I meant biblical scholars here. Most of the scholars interviewed in the film seemed to have a background in theology rather than biblical studies which made me wonder. But your point is well taken that those interviewed were well credentialed, and I’m thankful for each who took the time to be part of this project.

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   1. 

      Michael Hardin

      Oct 22, 2012

      April: Jamie Clark-Soles is a biblical scholar. I have engaged biblical languages and culture for over thirty years even though my interest is in theology. The best scholars are multi-disciplinary. I am as comfortable in Rabbinics as I am in Barth or the Didache as I am in Paul. Brad Jersak has written the excellent biblical studies book on hell titled Her Gates Will Never Be Shut. Might you consider an addendum to your review?

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5. 

   April Yamasaki

   Oct 22, 2012

   For clarity’s sake, I made a few additions to my wording. Thanks for your comment.

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6. 

   amazinglyautistic

   Oct 30, 2012

   Hell is human suffering, not a place of torment ruled by some devil. God is not vindictive, judgmental but inclusive. Look around at the religions of the world. Is Jesus solely for Christians? Indeed, not. Jesus was a jew who hung out with all types of people, religious and the atheists. God’s mission is simple. Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name; thy kingdom come, thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven; give us this day our daily bread and lead us not into temptation but deliver us from EVIL, for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, Amen.

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7. 

   April Yamasaki

   Oct 31, 2012

   Thank you for commenting and following my blog. I appreciate your point, and this was represented in the film as well. Your reference to the prayer of Jesus helps to put everything in perspective too!

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8. 

   pasdan

   Nov 2, 2012

   Thanks April. Your thoughts are well appreciated.

   Sorry for competing with you for length in the comment field. Kind of feel I need to ramble.

   I attended the movie on opening night so the theatre had a larger crowd, but I don’t think it was half full. I understand that it was sold out the next evening, for the Q&A showing, and that the attendance through the week was enough for a second week. The media on this seemed to draw enough attention to the movie and the theme that it has generated a number of paths of discussion, and maybe that is the best result that any movie could bring.
   I don’t know if my expectations were such that this movie could not have a positive end result for me. I did go, and I went with a hope that it would be what I wanted it to be – a thorough and fair discussion of the issues around the Biblical thoughts on hell. It might also be true that as soon as you open the door to question the classical views, any view after that is ‘liberal’ and not worth discussing. It is difficult to open those doors with caution – the pressure against the door is very great. In beginning the discussion I can commend Kevin Miller and those with him.

   It seemed to me that the movie did what it said it didn’t want to do. In the early segments of the movie it declared that merely questioning with giving answers did not have integrity (at least I thought it said that), and yet when I left, I felt that all it did was question. Yes, the three views were presented (I cannot say with equal integrity), but there was no sense of ‘Look this way, there is truth down here!” Instead it seemed to leave me feeling like there was no real answer, just speculation. I guess in reality, none of us have ever been to a ‘real, physical, other world’ called Hell (or Heaven for that matter), so we have speculation. The best we have would be the Biblical text, and the best tools we can use to understand the text. Merely saying this is what we always believed is not good enough. Neither is saying we can’t just believe it because it doesn’t ‘ring true’ with me.

   I agree with you on the need for Biblical scholars to enter into this discussion. It is time for the discussion to be brought up again. It has happened on this topic (and most every important topic) in the past. It is time for us to look at it again to see where we drifted from truth into religious system. The movie only tells us we need to do that. The movie does not open any of the truths into those ‘AHA’ moments. Some others have commented that Biblical scholars have been involved, but from what I hear, they are not in a discussion, but in an agreement before a discussion.

   I did find it interesting that at the showing I attended there were audible laughs every time Mark Driscoll spoke. He commented on some very difficult topics in 20 second sound bites. I think the members of the audience were just as biased as Westboro Baptist people were on the movie. That is not a comment on the movie, but soil on which this discussion is growing. The sides are being isolated, and the church is being divided. It makes me wonder why we do this. No matter which view of Hell we have, people are losing Christ because Christians in the many camps are again at war.

   This will probably be the last place I comment on this discussion of the movie (after one Minsterial gathering and a few comments on the Sunday after I saw the movie). I will enter into discussion on the Biblical teaching with people that I connect with (wide variety of congregations, with a wide variety of background on this topic). I know that I am in the classical camp at this point, with friends who are not. I will not lose friends over this. Why? Because that would not be biblical. That would not be Jesus’ way. It has far too often been the church’s way.

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9. 

   Michael Hardin

   Nov 3, 2012

   @pasdan: Again I point out that several “biblical” scholars are interviewed in the film. Brad Jersak’s book Her Gates Will Never Be Shut is a magesterial reading of the various “hell” traditions; it contains sound exegesis, as does the work of Jamie Clark-Soles. I have spent 30 years studying biblical languages and second temple Judaism. I’m not sure what more you would want. It is true Driscoll comes off like a buffoon in the film; that’s because his view of Christianity is about as far from the message of Jesus as one can get. As far as AHA moments: have you considered Jersak’s noting Jesus’ use of Jeremiah, or my argument (following Rene Girard) that the satan is not a personal being but a human structure that manifests itself both socially and religiously as ‘sacred violence?’ Neither of these has yet made it to the general religious consciousness as far as I am aware, they could be (should be) AHA moments for ECT persons. The film does succeed in at least questioning whether eternal conscious torment should be the default position and that other alternative visions of the good news might offer a more Jesus centered approach to salvation. The questions Kevin Miller raises in the film are vital to moving beyond the retributive god of Christendom to the God of Jesus Christ from whom salvation, forgiveness and all life comes.

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10. 

    April Yamasaki

    Nov 3, 2012

    Thanks Dan – rambling is welcome too. And thanks Michael for continuing to follow. There’s a lot more that could be said, and perhaps that’s one of the strengths of the film that it’s successful in raising questions and generating discussion. But there are also limits to the documentary genre–some point out that the classic view could have been represented better/more thoughtfully if other speakers had been interviewed, and I understand that others had been asked but declined so that’s one limitation. Plus to the extent that a documentary film is meant to be “entertainment,” it’s really too much to expect it to do everything–in this case, I saw the film as one man’s story/exploration of the issues with the audience invited to come along on his journey.

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11. 

    Wendy Janzen

    Jan 17, 2013

    Hi April,
    Your blog was the first introduction I had to this documentary. Last night it came to Waterloo and 20 members from my church went to see it in a sold-out theatre. It was a stimulating film and the conversation we had afterwards was excellent. I think it is an important conversation – one that I have to say I never had at the Mennonite Bible college or seminary that I attended!

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12. 

    April Yamasaki

    Jan 18, 2013

    Wendy, I think that’s really the best way to see this film–with time for good conversation afterward. So glad for your experience!

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13. 

    melodiemillerdavis

    Jan 19, 2013

    Just found this. Interesting in many ways. Thanks!

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14. 

    Maria Matty

    May 30, 2013

    The movie is showing tonight at St. Mathew’s Anglican Church…7 p.m I am thinking the discussion there afterward would be quite different than the one should it show in a Mennonite church.

    Reply

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